Does anyone have any theories on how would extending(45 cm) the wheelbase of a
flevoracer would affect the handling?

Hi Dustin,

My theories only apply to rear drive bikes.


http://www.calpoly.edu/~wpatters/
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/trail.asp

I do have some experience with your idea. I believe that
it would shift much more weight on to the front wheel.

The 45 degree headtube angle of the Flevo generates a tendency for the front
fork to turn away from the front at low speed. The added weight on the front
wheel will make this much worse.

I recently reduced the wheelbase 25 cm on one of my Flevo type bikes and it made
the steering much lighter and easier.

Bill

Hi Dustin, hi Flevofans,

I have some experience with Flevobikes with longer wheelbase. The first one is a
Flevotandem, the second one is my Flevo Racertje. Depending on how much you
extend the wheelbase the steering abilities tend to be similar to the ones of an
aircraft carrier ;)
My Racertje is only a little bit longer, therefore I can live with this
difference. For cycling fast this doesn't make any difference. But with the
Flevo tandem we tilted the front part a little bit more to the front so that the
steering angle grew. This had two advantages: The position of the captain's seat
went up (good when you have the additional mass of the stoker on the rear seat)
and with the steeper steering angle we needed less steering action for more
effect which compensated the long rear part. For the normal size Flevobike I
consider the 45° to be a good tradeoff between design and maneuverability at
low and high speed.

55 kph as traveling require a good suspension, I think. Cycling at these speeds
normally isn't an issue as long as the road is okay. From what I see all good
e-bikes (I don't mean the pedelecs which are limited to 25 kph in the EU) have a
good suspension because it's impossible to recognize every pothole at these
speeds.

Martin


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 20:28:06 -0700
> Von: Dustin Anderson <dustin@...>
> An: Flevofan@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [Flevofan] Extending the wheelbase

> Thanks Bill.
>
> I am interested in a FWD cargo bike platform with a rear electric assist.
> Presently I have an electrified Xtra cycle Vision R40 and works works
> pretty well but flexes a little more than I would like....and I want a bigger
> front wheel.
>
> From adding the Xtracycle to my Vision I am familiar with what adding
> wheelbase to a bike does. I am wondering if it could make a flevo
> unridable...heavier steering doesn't sound too bad to me.
>
> I like the MBB bike in principle as the drivetrain is very simple but not
> sure if it would work for my purposes. I ride year round here in Vancouver
> and use a fairing to keep my feet dry and the marginal aerodynamic
> advantage over 40kph. My dream cruising speed is 55 kph. Is this dangerous  on
a
> Flevo?
>
> I ride in all weather and have a feeling that the MBB with a fairing is a
> bad idea....although any bike I have ever had a fairing on rides like a
> bullet with a fairing. What do you (or anyone else) think about this?
>
> Essentially I want to update my present work bike. HERE is a picture. Am I
> asking too much?
>
> I would like to hear all honest opinions on this.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Dustin Anderson
> Purple Pirate Entertainment
> X-ercise Marks the Spot!
> 604.805.4395
> www.purplepirate.com
>

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I bought a Flevoracer kit from Alex off of eBay.  I am curious if anyone has
advice on how to appropriately position the seat.  It looks like I'm supposed to
drill holes in the seat somewhere, but I'm uncertain as to the proper location. 
I'm 5'7" if that is supposed to make any difference.

Thanks,
-Kevin

Am 11.10.2011 um 00:38 schrieb kevin_h_yeh:

> I am curious if anyone has advice on how to appropriately position the seat. 
It looks like I'm supposed to drill holes in the seat somewhere, but I'm
uncertain as to the proper location.

The optimum is to make the distance from the holes to the seat's edge equal wide
in order to have as much material there as possible to extend the seats life. It
*is* possible to position the seat that its front edge comes close to the
drilled holes – which allows quite a good access to the screws that fix the
handle bar. In this position you'll be sitting quite upright. It is also
possible to position the seat in a way that its upper edge come close to the fix
points. This way you'll be seating more laid back. A possible drawback can be
that the seat's front edge can become a bit too high that it can press towards
your thighs.

You need some experimenting.

> I'm 5'7" if that is supposed to make any difference.

Your size plays no role here (maybe you're an inch larger than me). This
adaptation is done by moving the bottom bracket on the front part.

--
Greetings

   Pete
                       ~  o
                        ~_\\_/\
                       ~  O   O

I'm thinking that this question has probably been asked a million times on this
site, but I guess I have to ask.
Many years ago I built a Flevo Racer after returning from a bicycle trip to the
Netherlands.
I test rode "The Bike" at Flevobike in Dronten and after a few rides, I just had
to have one.
So I built a Racer from plans offered on the net.
I built it with a single sided suspended rear swing arm, which does a great job
of providing a nice smooth ride.
I can ride the bike, but it is extremely "twitchy" and unforgiving. It demands
100% attention.
By trading out the rear shock for a longer shock, it would be easy to adjust the
trail and possibly improve the handling, much like dropping the metal bracket on
"The bike" version.
Does anybody know what the trail should be on the Racer version?

Thanks
Kevin In Nova Scotia, Canada

I built one too, and the trail is quite large. It can be calculated right
from the drawings off the 'web, but I believe it was 4.5 inches, for a 26
inch wheel.

I have also played with trail by moving the rear section up and down. I
find it better with the seat higher rather than low, which was odd. I did
this by playing with the height and settings of the rubber damper under
the seat.

The twitchy feelings I had were improved considerably by increasing the
wheelbase. I did this by moving the rear wheel further backward, but only
1.5 inch compared to the 'webs drawings, and I think the real reason for
the improvement was because it allowed my body weight to be lowered. (This
is because of the way my seat is mounted. I think it gets my seat lower on
the frame than a 'stock' flevoracer...)

I think that had a lot to do with how the bike feels. In fact, I think
your bodies 'connection' to the seat has a great deal to do with the
control of the bike overall. I have been looking at ways to improve
comfort, while also improving control, by improving how your body is in
contact with the rear portion of the bike. It gives you a better relative
reference, and steering and control are improved when you have better
connection to the rear portion of the bike.



> I'm thinking that this question has probably been asked a million times on
> this site, but I guess I have to ask.
> Many years ago I built a Flevo Racer after returning from a bicycle trip
> to the Netherlands.
> I test rode "The Bike" at Flevobike in Dronten and after a few rides, I
> just had to have one.
> So I built a Racer from plans offered on the net.
> I built it with a single sided suspended rear swing arm, which does a
> great job of providing a nice smooth ride.
> I can ride the bike, but it is extremely "twitchy" and unforgiving. It
> demands 100% attention.
> By trading out the rear shock for a longer shock, it would be easy to
> adjust the trail and possibly improve the handling, much like dropping the
> metal bracket on "The bike" version.
> Does anybody know what the trail should be on the Racer version?
>
> Thanks
> Kevin In Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>

I guess I will have to do some measurements and see what I presently have for
trail.
I'll post my findings, just to compare.
Kevin

--- In Flevofan@yahoogroups.com, jsisler@... wrote:
>
> I built one too, and the trail is quite large. It can be calculated right
> from the drawings off the 'web, but I believe it was 4.5 inches, for a 26
> inch wheel.
>
> I have also played with trail by moving the rear section up and down. I
> find it better with the seat higher rather than low, which was odd. I did
> this by playing with the height and settings of the rubber damper under
> the seat.
>
> The twitchy feelings I had were improved considerably by increasing the
> wheelbase. I did this by moving the rear wheel further backward, but only
> 1.5 inch compared to the 'webs drawings, and I think the real reason for
> the improvement was because it allowed my body weight to be lowered. (This
> is because of the way my seat is mounted. I think it gets my seat lower on
> the frame than a 'stock' flevoracer...)
>
> I think that had a lot to do with how the bike feels. In fact, I think
> your bodies 'connection' to the seat has a great deal to do with the
> control of the bike overall. I have been looking at ways to improve
> comfort, while also improving control, by improving how your body is in
> contact with the rear portion of the bike. It gives you a better relative
> reference, and steering and control are improved when you have better
> connection to the rear portion of the bike.
>
>
>
> > I'm thinking that this question has probably been asked a million times on
> > this site, but I guess I have to ask.
> > Many years ago I built a Flevo Racer after returning from a bicycle trip
> > to the Netherlands.
> > I test rode "The Bike" at Flevobike in Dronten and after a few rides, I
> > just had to have one.
> > So I built a Racer from plans offered on the net.
> > I built it with a single sided suspended rear swing arm, which does a
> > great job of providing a nice smooth ride.
> > I can ride the bike, but it is extremely "twitchy" and unforgiving. It
> > demands 100% attention.
> > By trading out the rear shock for a longer shock, it would be easy to
> > adjust the trail and possibly improve the handling, much like dropping the
> > metal bracket on "The bike" version.
> > Does anybody know what the trail should be on the Racer version?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Kevin In Nova Scotia, Canada
> >
> >
>

I've posted some pictures of my favorite bicycle!
Many thanks to Velocologne for their excellent frame.

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I still have a dual 700C FLevo Racer frame/seat/BB shell kit to part with, I
never built it up.  It came from Alex Meir <sp??> who advertises them on eBay. 
$675USD plus actual shipping [hopefully to someone in the lower 48 States].  I'm
in MAdison, WI  Frame is black.

Hi everybody,

I recently bought one of the early Flevo Trikes (without rear brakes). Because
I'm living in a not-completely-flat area (eastern Belgium), I would like to
update the bike to have some rear brakes.

I did some investigations so far and it seems that the solution of the later
Flevo Trikes (two 70mm drum brakes) should be sufficient for me.

What I don't now, is how the torque support for the brakes is solved for those
trikes. Especially I could use a photo/drawing of how the brake is connected to
the axis - and how the axis mounting to the backframe is modified to brace the
the brake-torque. (Did I make myself clear? The last sentence was constructed
under heavy use of a dictionary:-)

Could anybody help me out with some information?

Greetings - Robert

PS.: No, if possible I don't want to exchange the original back-frame against a
"Hamburg Solution" one - I like the original one...

Hi Robert,

a friend of mine had the same problem a few years ago. Therefore I know that it
is/was possible to order everything you need at the Ligfietsshop Tempelman in
Dronten (NL) (at least this was possible at that time). That means that you'll
get a new rear axle, wheels readily equipped with drum brakes, brake lever plus
cables and that stuff.
If I remember correctly the axle which I got at that time had braces for the
hubs but the torque of the axle against the rear frame is only held by the
bracket which holds the axle at the rear frame.

Hope that helps.

Bye,
Martin

--
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belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de

Olaf wrote:
> If someone ask me, I nearly always give the advice not to mount brakes
> on the rear wheel of a Flevobike. The exception is if you frequently
> need to brake while going uphill ;-)

Well, if the hills are higher than a dyke I prefer having more than one single
20" rim as heat sink - downhill of course.
And for uphill you're right: If you come to the point that your front wheel does
not have enough grip anymore and is slipping all the time you definitely need a
rear brake because (as stated before) the front wheel does not have enough grip,
neither for pulling the bike nor for holding it where it is ;-)

Bye,
Martin
--
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Hi Olaf, hi Martin,


--- In Flevofan@yahoogroups.com, Olaf Johansson <noll@...> wrote:
[...]
> my point of view is that there is not enough weight on the rear
> wheel to use it for any effective braking; and if the road is the
> least slippery your rear will come up beside you and you'll get
> that not very pleasant "shiit"-feeling. ;)

Yes, I'm aware of this.

> > Olaf wrote:
> > > If someone ask me, I nearly always give the advice not to mount brakes
> > > on the rear wheel of a Flevobike.

Maybe it's only to calm my nervs...
It's not that I'm afraid of speed (riding motorcycle for a lot of years:-), but
I hate the idea of riding downhill with only one brake which might fail, because
of whatever...

<martin.anderseck@...> wrote:
> >
> > Well, if the hills are higher than a dyke I prefer having more
> > than one single 20" rim as heat sink - downhill of course.

That's what I ment!

> > And for uphill you're right: If you come to the point that your
> > front wheel does not have enough grip anymore and is slipping all
> > the time you definitely need a rear brake because (as stated
> > before) the front wheel does not have enough grip, neither for
> > pulling the bike nor for holding it where it is ;-)

Didn't think of this case, but imediately I can see funny pictures of what you
describe in front of my "inner eye" :-)

> a friend of mine had the same problem a few years ago. Therefore I
> know that it is/was possible to order everything you need at the
> Ligfietsshop Tempelman in Dronten (NL) (at least this was possible
> at that time). That means that you'll get a new rear axle, wheels
> readily equipped with drum brakes, brake lever plus cables and that
> stuff.

Maybe I'll try this, but originally I had in mind making the missing parts
myself...

> If I remember correctly the axle which I got at that time had
> braces for the hubs but the torque of the axle against the rear
> frame is only held by the bracket which holds the axle at the rear
> frame.

I have some idea how the hub-brace could look like, but I won't trust the
bracket holding the torque just by friction...

Robert

 

If someone ask me, I nearly always give the advice not to mount brakes on the rear wheel of a Flevobike. The exception is if you frequently need to brake while going uphill ;-)

Olaf

7 mar 2012 kl. 09:32 skrev Martin Anderseck:

 

Hi Robert,

a friend of mine had the same problem a few years ago. Therefore I know that it is/was possible to order everything you need at the Ligfietsshop Tempelman in Dronten (NL) (at least this was possible at that time). That means that you'll get a new rear axle, wheels readily equipped with drum brakes, brake lever plus cables and that stuff.
If I remember correctly the axle which I got at that time had braces for the hubs but the torque of the axle against the rear frame is only held by the bracket which holds the axle at the rear frame.

Hope that helps.

Bye,
Martin

--
Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir
belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de

--

I have recently bought a home-build flevo lowracer (28inch rear, 20 inch front
wheel, see my picture under category photos) and I am trying to ride it.
So far, I have practised four times and have managed:
* Riding off from a stand-still most of the times.
* Riding stretches of a few hundred meters at about 15/16 kilometers an hour
(about 10 miles per hour).
* Making some turns.
* A maximum speed of 20kilometers an hour (with easy pedalling, but not feeling
fully stable).

So I am making progress, but still feel far from in control. When steering a
little to one side, I can steer the bike back. But I easily oversteer and lose
control.

I am trying to focus on:
* Not squeezing my hands and use them minimally - trying to steer with my body
weight.
* when going straigth, trying to keep my body still.

Adding a rear section with two wheels is not possible with this bike (in
contrast to the flevo bike/ flevo racer).

I am wondering if anyone can give me a few more tips. All advise is much
appreciated.

Am 4.4.2012 um 16:05 schrieb richard.rosing:

> I am wondering if anyone can give me a few more tips. All advise is much
appreciated.

Wait and pause between practising. Your cerebellum learns slowly. And it's your
cerebellum which controls the automatic reactions. Two weeks should give you
some self-confidence. After a year or two you'll be finished.

On a parking ground you can learn to ride in figure eights and changing from
left-turns to right-turns and vice-versa.

Become aware that (sudden) wind from the side can produce a (sudden) steering
moment.

--
Greetings

              ~  O
   Pete       ~~_\\_/%
              ~  O  o

 

Am 4.4.2012 um 16:05 schrieb richard.rosing:

> I am wondering if anyone can give me a few more tips. All advise is much appreciated.

Wait and pause between practising. Your cerebellum learns slowly. And it's your cerebellum which controls the automatic reactions. Two weeks should give you some self-confidence. After a year or two you'll be finished.

On a parking ground you can learn to ride in figure eights and changing from left-turns to right-turns and vice-versa.

Become aware that (sudden) wind from the side can produce a (sudden) steering moment.

--
Greetings

~ O
Pete ~~_\\_/%
~ O o

You will be able to get to a point where your can steer entirely with your
body weight and feet. Even starting from a standstill.

Do you water ski ? if so, you will be familiar with the need to always
remain leaning back, and making certain the back of the ski is pushing
down into the water. The flevo is the same.  Continue to keep your upper
shoulders and back in contact with the backrest of the seat. Leaning
forward, and losing contact with your shoulders on the seat, will be less
control than if you simply relax backward and lay back comfortably. This
will help your body remain in contact with the rear of the bike and give
your more control instead of less. It is natural when losing control to
want to lean forward and attempt to steer with your arms etc, but you will
do best when leaning back and relaxing.






> I have recently bought a home-build flevo lowracer (28inch rear, 20 inch
> front wheel, see my picture under category photos) and I am trying to ride
> it.
> So far, I have practised four times and have managed:
> * Riding off from a stand-still most of the times.
> * Riding stretches of a few hundred meters at about 15/16 kilometers an
> hour (about 10 miles per hour).
> * Making some turns.
> * A maximum speed of 20kilometers an hour (with easy pedalling, but not
> feeling fully stable).
>
> So I am making progress, but still feel far from in control. When steering
> a little to one side, I can steer the bike back. But I easily oversteer
> and lose control.
>
> I am trying to focus on:
> * Not squeezing my hands and use them minimally - trying to steer with my
> body weight.
> * when going straigth, trying to keep my body still.
>
> Adding a rear section with two wheels is not possible with this bike (in
> contrast to the flevo bike/ flevo racer).
>
> I am wondering if anyone can give me a few more tips. All advise is much
> appreciated.
>
>